tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. first up tonight, a conversation with health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius. this marks the anniversary of health-care reform, and new measures take effect. secretary sebelius on what these measures mean for you and your family. also tonight, the conversation with a co-founder of the huffington post, arianna huffington, and she has a new book out called "third world america." kathleen sebelius and arianna huffington, coming up right now. >> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i am james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference, you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance

supports tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment, one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] tavis: a few programming notes first. in just a few minutes, i will be joined by a the huffington post co-founder arianna huffington, and tomorrow, we have a team robbins and the plea he has written about the jamestown settlement. later in the week, philip seymour hoffman, who is making

his directorial debut. on thursday night, the "house" star hugh laurie is here, and then we revisit a documentary on baseball. tonight, we begin our week with kathleen sebelius, former governor of kansas, the now, of course, serves as president obama note's secretary of health and human services -- serves as president obama's health and human services secretary. good to have you back on the program. >> good to be here. tavis: was it worth it? "it" being the fight that you had to go through. the polls still indicate that most americans either do and understand what we have done or are in disagreement with what we have done, and the critics tend to calling obama care, so first

of all, was it worth it, the fight? >> well, i think it was absolutely worth it. as you know, note tavis, presidents since harry truman have tried to push for some kind of reform of health care and health insurance, and this president finally got it done, signed into law on march 23, and as you say, this month marks the six-month anniversary, and some of the worst insurance practices come to an end this week, so americans are going to start to see some real benefit. those who have insurance will have some protection around that insurance coverage. tavis: tell me more. >> insurers will no longer be able to eliminate children with pre-existing health conditions from insurance policies or eliminate the treatment that they need, so millions of parents will have some peace of mind that they can take care of their families, take care of

their sick kids. insurance companies cannot any longer put a cap on a lifetime benefit. i was with a woman earlier today, tavis, from baltimore, who is about to reach her cap, and she is in the middle of cancer treatment. this would be life and death for her. she desperately needs the coverage that she has paid for and now will not have to worry that her coverage will run out in the midst of for treatment korean companies will be forbidden by law for rescinding policies -- will run out in the midst of her treatment. companies will be forbidden by law to rescind policies, and we will begin to see new policies with preventive health care, with benefits that will not have a copay or coinsurance. we can really encourage parents to get their kids immunized, to get cancer screenings, to make sure they take care of themselves, and find problems before they become too acute.

tavis: the same numbers, of course, i am sure, that you see all of the tide. is it your sense that once americans start to see these important measures kick in that these numbers will start to ship on what they think about health- care reform? shift? start to >> we are starting to see that already. tavis, understandably, people want to know what is going to happen to me and my family, and there is a college graduate, and i remind them that this year that a young adult can stay on a family plan, does not have to go shop for insurance in the private market, and parents are thrilled. when i talk to parents about the fact that they're sick children for the first time will have peace of mind for having health coverage -- their six children for the first time will have

peace of mind, when seniors understand they get help with their prescription drug costs, and next year, there will be a 50% decrease in what they pay for drugs in that so-called doughnut hole. people are not only pleased with the bill, but a lot of what they have heard just is not accurate. tavis: i sought a major story today in "the wall street journal," and many are carrying stories that the republican party had priority number one, should they take back the house and/or the senate in november, as parte number one, repealing this health-care reform or at least the measures of it they can repeal. let me ask you whether or not that is possible. is it possible, first, to repeal what has been done, and then we will talk more about the policies. >> well, anything is possible in a legislative body, but i think what becomes very real is

basically taking back some of these consumer protections, taking them away from their constituents, so when people ask me what john boehner would do if he were in charge of the house, i say, "john boehner does not need to have a conversation with me about what he would do if the republicans, indeed, take over the house and if, indeed, he becomes speaker of the us." he needs to have a conversation with his constituents in the state of ohio, talking about copay, looking forward to a yearly medicare check up, and one of the things that would go the fastest is that we have been given some new resources, wr tavis, to really crack down on medicare fraud, to go after the guys stealing from the system, to work closely with the attorney general. he and i have been in several places of the country and

continue to go around. if those resources are gone, those are one of the first programs to go, and i do not think the taxpayers will find that to be a good idea. we have already returned $2.50 billion to the medicare trust fund, and we believe more can be found, and we can prevent and then prosecute these criminals, but those resources have to be available for that effort to go on. tavis: since you have raised the name of john boehner, it seems to me that we are just weeks away, if the polls are correct, republicans may take over the house and/or the senate. if that happens, they will take over with these poll numbers still indicating that most americans are not in agreement with what happened these of the health-care reform. why then would they not take these health-care numbers, with most americans not agreeing with what has happened on health care, and then start decry and

start the effort to repeal those measures, -- and then start the cry. why would that not be the strategy that they would employ based upon these numbers? >> well, i think, unfortunately, a lot of american people are still confused about what is in the bill and what is not in the bill. there was about 18 months of intentional misinformation put out a day in and day out, combined with millions in television ads. people who like the current system just the way it is. i think once the republicans start to talk about what is their alternative, how do they lower-cost some -- everybody admits that this bill lowers the deficit by about $100 billion the first 10 years, and then by $1 trillion the second 10 years, what alternative do they have to make sure health-care costs go down? how do they replace? are we just going to give the power back to the insurance companies? let them pick and choose?

what are we going to do about the 50 million americans who do not have any health-care coverage now at all? those numbers are stunning, and because of the economic downturn, we have more americans in our history that are without health insurance. what are we going to do with that disparity, the big gas, where people who have good coverage get the care and treatment they need, and people who do not are still coming through the doors of the emergency room at the wrong time, very extensive treatment, -- expensive treatment, so let's talk about what this means to actually roll back the progress that we have started. tavis: i remember this very, very vividly. the week that this deal was announced, that is to say the deal that health care was, in fact, going to get through, the week this deal was announced, knoxville the insurance companies went up in this country to like a 52-year high -- the stock in the insurance

companies went up. they must know something we do not know. whatever the talking points are about how we stuck it to the insurance companies, they do not see it that way, and their shareholders do not see it that way if their stock went up, so is this really health-care reform? >> well, i think it is health- care reform, but it is health- care reform bill to in the private market. you know as well as i do, tavis, that there were some who wanted to get rid of the private insurance companies altogether, that we go to a government system where everyone gets their insurance through the government, much like medicare, and the president said, no, millions of americans have coverage that they liked pretty well. it is good for them and their families. we are not going to dismantle that in order to build a new system. what we are going to do is stabilize the private market and

then build on it. in fact, the insurance companies are looking at the possibility of millions of new customers in 2014, when the market opens up, having the opportunity to have more affordable care options under a lot of americans. the trade-off of that is that we are getting rid of some of the ways in which they used to dump people and lock people up and price people out of the market. we are getting rid of the rules that allowed them to pick and choose, "we will cover you when you are healthy, but we are not going to cover you when you are sick," and we will make sure that there is some real oversight, that they have to spend 80 cents on every dollar vote on health care instead of ceo's salary, so there is a balance going forward. it does not just give all of the ballot -- power back to insurance companies. tavis: we know that this marks the six-month anniversary since this historic legislation was

passed, but there is still misinformation out there. i still hear government taking over insurance. so finally, very quickly, what to you is that bit of misinformation most principally that you want to try to back down here once again? >> well, i would really urge the viewers to go to the new website, go to healthcare.gov. for the first time, the pull together information about what is available for your family in the private market, what plans are being sold in your zip code for your age group. in october, we will have some pricing information, and then there is a good time line of what the bill will be and what are the consumer benefits that are in place. keeping your adult children on your family plan, no more limitations on kids with pre- existing conditions, no more recisions, cannot cut off

treatment in the middle of a treatment regime, will not reach a lifetime cap, preventive services beginning to offer free of charge without copays and co-insurance, and those are our region not -- those are all outlined on healthcar.gov. this is going away from the insurers for the first time in this country. they are going to be more enthusiastic about the law. tavis: secretary sebelius, good to have you on the show. >> my pleasure to visit with you. tavis: coming up, arianna huffington. co-founder of the huffington post. please stay with us. always pleased to happen arianna huffington -- to have arianna huffington on the show, the co-

founder of the huffington post. she joins us from new york. she "third world america has a new world america -- she has a new book comment -- a new book, "third world america." >> good to be here. tavis: some of what we heard what youmirrors wrote about in "third world america." >> yes, and i have things like what i have here. "i am one of the middle class americans, and, quite frankly, i am exhausted." and just that word, "exhausted," that is what americans are feeling.

so many middle-class families are now basically facing downward mobility instead of upward mobility, which is sort of the essence of the american dream. an immigrant, as someone who came to this country as so many others, hoping that we're going to find a better life, and i certainly did, i am really, really very disturbed by this trajectory we are on. clearly, we are not yet a third world america, but sounding the alarm, as these people of the town hall meeting, they were making it very clear appear that if we do not correct this very quickly, we are going to be a third world country. to me, the essence of a third- world country is a country without a middle class, a country with extremes. tavis: let me get your definition, because i am not sure anymore who use this phrase "the middle class," i am not

sure i know any more, -- anymore, arianna, what the middle class is. >> can you keep a roof over your head and at the food on the table without worrying about it week after week? there are other definitions, but that is really the key, and, of course, when you talk about the middle class, it does not mean working people, people now living in poverty, as we saw from the latest census numbers, over 14% right now, and they are not any less significant or any less worthy of attention. the problem about the middle- class, at least there was always a middle class in america. it has always been poor people. but there have been people who are really the foundation of american prosperity and the american democratic stability. >>tavis: i wonder though if it s

not pitting the abject poor against the middle class. we do not want to put these two groups against each other, but whether or not the conversation ought to be about the middle class as opposed to the very poor. i have seen during the presidential debates between obama and mccain, the world "poverty" never came up. .-- the word "poverty" never came up. the president does not use it. poverty is at the highest in this country in 15 years, and with all due respect, we are still talking about the middle- class. nobody is talking about the very poor in this country. >> i talk a lot about it in the book, because we do not have just the people who have been poor for one year. we also have the new poor, the

formerly middle class. it is not about pitting one class against the other. it is with recognizing that we are all in this together, and, frankly, would they want to live in a third world america? where they are living behind gates, with security guards with guns protecting their kids from kidnapping? we do not want to become mexico or brazil. that is not the america of our dreams, so what i am saying in the book, petavis, we have to recognize we all have a responsibility to do our part and rebuild our communities and rebuild our lives, beginning with the beginning -- building our own financial literacy. getting our own family on to stable financial ground. the credit card companies, the mortgage companies that have been offering supposedly a ticket to the good life are

really feeling their contracts with tricks and traps, charging and usery raids, 20% on our credit cards, it. -- usery rates, 20% on our credit cards, and they are undermining the american dream. tavis: obviously, they are tone deaf at the moment. they have got a tin ear. what does it mean if washington does not get this? >> that is a fantastic question, because i am not letting government off of the hook, and i have a whole sense of questions, including the problem of foreclosures and bankruptcy. but at the same time, democracy is not a spectator sport. you cannot just sit on the sidelines and wait for the government to save you.

if your viewers are only going to read one chapter of this book, i want them to read chapter 5, because it is about what we can do, beginning to tap into our own resilience, actually doing something for others. i have been so inspired by what people are doing, the creativity and the compassion that they are bringing to the problems we are facing, ranging from lawyers who have lost their jobs in philadelphia coming together to help people avoid foreclosure to a concierge in portland, ore., who lost his job and has sent out 500 job obligations -- applications, and he has actually created a website, wehavetimetohelp.org. imagine if we have an explosion of that kind of giving? not only are we going to be able to start solving problems at the

community level, but also, people who are losing jobs and others will be able to recognize that they can still contribute and have a meaningful life. this is what the same time having a job. tavis: in no particular order, these bush tax cuts, " what about them? >> more than $250,000 per year. this is coming from republicans who are dubbed sandhogs, to start being completely cavalier boat -- who are being dead hogs -- debt hogs, to start being completely cavalier.

the british prime minister said you cannot jump across a country. that is what we tried to do with the stimulus bill. we try to actually solve the foreclosure problem with measures that were inadequate. tavis: i know that the huffington post had pieces of regularly, talking about why elizabeth warren should have got in the position. she got an appointment from the president to just a few days ago. your assessment on the position that she now has, which is not the head of that bureau, so to speak? >> well, i am actually very optimistic about this appointment. she is not a permanent head. she is the interim head, which has some benefits, which is to

recognize the urgency of the problem, so instead of sidelining her and going through a lengthy process, she can start working right now because of the clause in the bill that allows that to happen. she is also going to be a direct adviser to the president, and this happens without objection it, larry summers, the treasury secretary timothy he isner, so, finally, not doing something against what they want, so what the problems with the white house is that they have been listening to summers and geithner, and they really believe that if you save wall street, everything else will be all right, and it turned out to be not the case, at all. tavis: the new book from arianna huffington is called "third world america."

she is co-founder of the huffington post. >> i would love to invite your viewers to come to our special and share their stories of struggle and overcoming obstacles, because by fighting each other and connecting with each other, we have a much better chance of solving these problems. tavis: : i am sure the viewers will take you up on that. arianna, think you for being on the program. that is our show for this kind. until next time, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i am tavis smiley. join me next time for our interview with tim robbins on the jamestown settlement. we will see you then. >> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i am james. >> yes.

>> to everyone making a difference, you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and every answer. literacy and the economic empowerment that comes with it. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org- >> be more. pbs.